STRENGTH: is it worth the points? - Guild Wars Forums

A Leprechaun · Aug 11, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

I was just wondering if is worth putting points into strength even if i dont have any skills in it, or only a few. Does the few points of armour pentration make enough difference to justify the use of points in strength?
Could someone answer my question?

Thanks
~A Leprechaun~

icedragon981 · Aug 11, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23

If I'm not using any strength skills I usually just put some left over points into it, nothing major.

Draxx · Aug 11, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Dolyacks Baby!

And for Sentinals Armor... Considering we now get slaughtered by Elemental Damage the higher the better.

IMO.

It works for me.

shadow39365 · Aug 11, 2006, 04:30 PM // 16:30

well i could talk about skills but that isnt why you asked, to be honest, 10 is enough and always will be enough for a standard build, anything over that is not really required. It does make a difference. Lets take a look at Frost Wurms, they don't have anymore HP than your average enemy but they just have stupidly high armour, using Strength against those types of creatures is useful? yes it is. Strength applies a damage bonus depending on enemy armour and if i am thinking correctly (pardon me, tired today) then the higher an enemy's armour the higher the damage bonus applied.

EDIT: sorry the phrase "standard build" is quite vague, i mean if you were to run high weapon mastery and use mostly attack skills, if you were to run a strong tanking build high Strength for Dolyaks Signet is nice

However if you are in an area with primarily Squishy enemies with low armour probably not going above 70 base armour (and no bonus vs physical) Strength becomes less useful because the damage bonus applied from Strength becomes rather obselete due to their innate lack of armour anyway.

So overall i would say look at what types of enemies your facing, if your facing a lot of Warriors then put your strength up to 10/11 (i say 11 because a nice balance of Attributes for me is 15 Weapon, 11 Strength, 11 Tactics). So it's purely situational.

A quick note about skills, there are a few good Strength skills i'd recommend, Dolyak's Signet is a brilliant skill, shoving a few more ranks into Strength is a good idea for Dolyak Sig. You might use Rush to maintain a speed boost against enemies which don't like to stay in your aggro and so you can easily manipulate the aggro onto you.

But yeah, generally its situational, hope this helps

Hephaestus Ram · Aug 11, 2006, 04:33 PM // 16:33

I tried to detect a differance on the +100 armor dummy. After beating
it down 5x each with 12 in str and 0 in str, I added the number of hits
it took up and divided them by five. Both ways it came out to the same
number of hits to destroy the target.
So... as far as I can tell, it does nothing outside the strength based
skills. I still put some in anyway if I'm using a strength based shield.

Zui · Aug 11, 2006, 04:36 PM // 16:36

It only works on Attack skills, so the only reason to put points into it is when you're running skills in the Strength line, or just to spend leftover attribute points.

Zakarr · Aug 11, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

I guess Strength attribute passive effect is a bit weaker compared to other primary attributes but nowadays it has 100 armor set which requires rank 13 strength. Balances a bit for special builds at least.

shadow39365 · Aug 11, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

i think Strength is possibly the worst primary out there actually.

When you have the awesomeness of Expertise, Soul Reapin and Divine Favour.

milias · Aug 11, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Strenght is usually "required" for warriors in PvP, since warriors are usually damage dealers in PvP. In PvE, it depends. There're stance tanks that invest heavily in Tactics for stances, and there're Strength warriors who invest a lot of points in Strength. Personally, I put points in Strength and Tactics.

I usually do:

Strength: 11+1+3
Tactics: 11+1
Sword: 8+1
Protection: 2
Smite: 3

Skills:

Dolyak Signet (constant +40 AL)
"Watch Yourself" (constant +20 AL)
Defy Pain {E} (constant +20 AL and +300 life)
Endure Pain (for emergencies)
Disciplined Stance (hit this when you first charge in)
Smite Hex (gets rid of hex and does 25 AoE damage)
Purge Conditions/Mend Ailment (gets rid of conditions)
Rebirth (self-explanatory)

I was tanking 20 something Avicaras with this build, and I tanked a whole bunch of Shadow Warriors wacking at me for 5 minutes by myself when the rest of the team was dead (I was surrounded and stuck >.<), but this was before the damage reduction nerf, of course.

Yanman.be · Aug 11, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

milias, Strength isn't required for warriors in PvP, because it adds about 0.00001% damage? You want Strength for the skills ( sprint, the armour ignoring part of bull's strike etc. ). Not for the inherent effect.

Slainster · Aug 11, 2006, 05:06 PM // 17:06

quite interesting actually, ive never really thought about the impact of strength unless im using skills directly related. is there a way to "prove" what strength is doing anyone?

This is Brad · Aug 11, 2006, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Strength only triggers upon the use of attack skills. I will outline a simple test to show this.

You will need Wild Blow and a Speed Boost. Set your Strength to be as high as possible.

Go to the Isle of the Nameless, find the ranger NPC that just runs around (Master of Survival I believe). Press your speed boost and autoattack, you will autocritical because she is running from you.

Record this number.
This is your critical hit damage base.

Now, Press your speed boost and use Wild Blow on her. You will notice that the amount of damage has increased, but this is still just a critical hit (just like the critical hit you get when a target runs from you).

You can repeat this test with varying amounts of strength. Note: If you have 0 strength, the 2 numbers should be identical.

The only explanation is that Strength only triggers off of attack skills and not off of innate autoattacking.

Personally (for GvG primarily), I will only spec 9-10 into strength, and then use 10-11 in tactics and 14 weapon mastery.

milias · Aug 11, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

milias, Strength isn't required for warriors in PvP, because it adds about 0.00001% damage? You want Strength for the skills ( sprint, the armour ignoring part of bull's strike etc. ). Not for the inherent effect.

Agreed, it's not required per se, but people usually invest quite a bit in Strength in PvP. If you're an axe warrior, you're constantly spamming skills. Say you have 10 in Strength, that's 10% armor penetration when using skills.

Against a 60 AL target, without armor penetration, if your base damage is 50 with 12 Axe Mastery when using a skill, you do:

50 * 2 ^ ((60 - 60) / 40) = 50 damage

But if you figure in Strength and armor penetration, you get:

50 * 2 ^ ((60 - 60 * 0.9) / 40) = 55.48 damage

which is even better than a Vampiric mod.

Gafgarion · Aug 11, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

This is Brad is right, the armor penetration provided by strenght is only applied to attack skills, not normal attacks. It even says so in the description (hover mouse over attribute).
Even then, I think Strenght should be buffed to inflict AP on normal attacks. I mean, at 10 str you'd have 10% AP. On a 60 AL target that only accounts for 6 armor, which isn't really that much at all.

fallot · Aug 11, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

Agreed, it's not required per se, but people usually invest quite a bit in Strength in PvP. If you're an axe warrior, you're constantly spamming skills. Say you have 10 in Strength, that's 10% armor penetration when using skills.

It is not required *at all*. There just aren't many attributes that a warrior would need to spec into and Strength is your Rush/Sprint/Bull's attribute after all. Besides that, its useless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

which is even better than a Vampiric mod.

Wrong and right at the same time. It dealt more damage than Vampiric would on a single hit, but the comparison is so utterly pointless its almost laughable. As long as it only procs on attack skills, this attribute is not worth a significant investment.

Its safe to say that the inherent effect of Strength, disregarding skills associated with it, is amongst the worst in the game.

milias · Aug 11, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallot

It is not required *at all*. There just aren't many attributes that a warrior would need to spec into and Strength is your Rush/Sprint/Bull's attribute after all. Besides that, its useless.

Eh? Didn't you just list skills that would require Strength? And by the sound of it, they're used quite often in PvP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallot

Wrong and right at the same time. It dealt more damage than Vampiric would on a single hit, but the comparison is so utterly pointless its almost laughable. As long as it only procs on attack skills, this attribute is not worth a significant investment.

This was taken out of context. I was talking about an axe warrior using a chain of skills. You hit things to build up adrenaline, and then when the time is right, you try to spike a target. Monks can usually outheal any damage other than spike damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallot

Its safe to say that the inherent effect of Strength, disregarding skills associated with it, is amongst the worst in the game.

I'm not saying Strength is the best primary attribute in the game, but it does have its uses, especially in PvP. When you're spiking, you try to exact every last bit of damage you can, and Strength certainly helps in this regard.

fallot · Aug 11, 2006, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

Strenght is usually "required" for warriors in PvP, since warriors are usually damage dealers in PvP.

My post was mostly a response to the quotation above. You implied that Strength is specced into for damage. I should have been more clear with the not required statement as I meant that it is not required for damage, sorry about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

This was taken out of context. I was talking about an axe warrior using a chain of skills. You hit things to build up adrenaline, and then when the time is right, you try to spike a target. Monks can usually outheal any damage other than spike damage.

Monks can outheal damage other than spike ? How do you kill things outside of spike then ? How does heavy pressure work, how do thumpers kill things ? That's not the focus of this thread though, so I leave it at that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

I'm not saying Strength is the best primary attribute in the game, but it does have its uses, especially in PvP. When you're spiking, you try to exact every last bit of damage you can, and Strength certainly helps in this regard.

And I'm saying that the effect is so trivial that it is realistically equal to not helping at all i.e no one puts points in strength to spike out people, just to make skills associated with the attribute work.

aB- · Aug 11, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

The damage bonus from strength is negligible. The real reason people put points into strength is for the skills.

A Leprechaun · Aug 11, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

wow thanks for all the replies!
the general feeling im getting is strength is only good if your packing strength skills which is mainly in PvP
am i right?

~A Leprechaun~

Livingston · Aug 11, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

Strenght is usually "required" for warriors in PvP, since warriors are usually damage dealers in PvP. In PvE, it depends. There're stance tanks that invest heavily in Tactics for stances, and there're Strength warriors who invest a lot of points in Strength. Personally, I put points in Strength and Tactics.

I usually do:

Strength: 11+1+3
Tactics: 11+1
Sword: 8+1
Protection: 2
Smite: 3

I find your statements to be conflicting. You say warriors are usually damage dealers in PvP but you're only putting 9 at in swords. You need a 12 just to do full listed damage of a sword.

Livingston

Aug 11, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21	#1
A Leprechaun Desert Nomad Join Date: Feb 2006 Profession: W/	STRENGTH: is it worth the points? I was just wondering if is worth putting points into strength even if i dont have any skills in it, or only a few. Does the few points of armour pentration make enough difference to justify the use of points in strength? Could someone answer my question? Thanks ~A Leprechaun~

Aug 11, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23	#2
icedragon981 Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2006 Location: At my computer Guild: Teh Nine [lll] Profession: N/	If I'm not using any strength skills I usually just put some left over points into it, nothing major.

Aug 11, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28	#3
Draxx Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2006 Location: England Baby!	Dolyacks Baby! And for Sentinals Armor... Considering we now get slaughtered by Elemental Damage the higher the better. IMO. It works for me.

Aug 11, 2006, 04:30 PM // 16:30	#4
shadow39365 Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: England Guild: Angels Symphonys [AnSy]	well i could talk about skills but that isnt why you asked, to be honest, 10 is enough and always will be enough for a standard build, anything over that is not really required. It does make a difference. Lets take a look at Frost Wurms, they don't have anymore HP than your average enemy but they just have stupidly high armour, using Strength against those types of creatures is useful? yes it is. Strength applies a damage bonus depending on enemy armour and if i am thinking correctly (pardon me, tired today) then the higher an enemy's armour the higher the damage bonus applied. EDIT: sorry the phrase "standard build" is quite vague, i mean if you were to run high weapon mastery and use mostly attack skills, if you were to run a strong tanking build high Strength for Dolyaks Signet is nice However if you are in an area with primarily Squishy enemies with low armour probably not going above 70 base armour (and no bonus vs physical) Strength becomes less useful because the damage bonus applied from Strength becomes rather obselete due to their innate lack of armour anyway. So overall i would say look at what types of enemies your facing, if your facing a lot of Warriors then put your strength up to 10/11 (i say 11 because a nice balance of Attributes for me is 15 Weapon, 11 Strength, 11 Tactics). So it's purely situational. A quick note about skills, there are a few good Strength skills i'd recommend, Dolyak's Signet is a brilliant skill, shoving a few more ranks into Strength is a good idea for Dolyak Sig. You might use Rush to maintain a speed boost against enemies which don't like to stay in your aggro and so you can easily manipulate the aggro onto you. But yeah, generally its situational, hope this helps

Aug 11, 2006, 04:33 PM // 16:33	#5
Hephaestus Ram Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: None Profession: W/E	I tried to detect a differance on the +100 armor dummy. After beating it down 5x each with 12 in str and 0 in str, I added the number of hits it took up and divided them by five. Both ways it came out to the same number of hits to destroy the target. So... as far as I can tell, it does nothing outside the strength based skills. I still put some in anyway if I'm using a strength based shield.

Aug 11, 2006, 04:36 PM // 16:36	#6
Zui Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: The Benecia Renovatio [RenO] Profession: Mo/	It only works on Attack skills, so the only reason to put points into it is when you're running skills in the Strength line, or just to spend leftover attribute points.

Aug 11, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38	#7
Zakarr Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005 Location: Finland	I guess Strength attribute passive effect is a bit weaker compared to other primary attributes but nowadays it has 100 armor set which requires rank 13 strength. Balances a bit for special builds at least.

Aug 11, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45	#8
shadow39365 Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: England Guild: Angels Symphonys [AnSy]	i think Strength is possibly the worst primary out there actually. When you have the awesomeness of Expertise, Soul Reapin and Divine Favour.

Aug 11, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53	#9
milias Grotto Attendant Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Defected back to America Profession: Me/E	Strenght is usually "required" for warriors in PvP, since warriors are usually damage dealers in PvP. In PvE, it depends. There're stance tanks that invest heavily in Tactics for stances, and there're Strength warriors who invest a lot of points in Strength. Personally, I put points in Strength and Tactics. I usually do: Strength: 11+1+3 Tactics: 11+1 Sword: 8+1 Protection: 2 Smite: 3 Skills: Dolyak Signet (constant +40 AL) "Watch Yourself" (constant +20 AL) Defy Pain {E} (constant +20 AL and +300 life) Endure Pain (for emergencies) Disciplined Stance (hit this when you first charge in) Smite Hex (gets rid of hex and does 25 AoE damage) Purge Conditions/Mend Ailment (gets rid of conditions) Rebirth (self-explanatory) I was tanking 20 something Avicaras with this build, and I tanked a whole bunch of Shadow Warriors wacking at me for 5 minutes by myself when the rest of the team was dead (I was surrounded and stuck >.<), but this was before the damage reduction nerf, of course.

Aug 11, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05	#10
Yanman.be Banned Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Belgium Guild: [ROSE] Profession: A/	milias, Strength isn't required for warriors in PvP, because it adds about 0.00001% damage? You want Strength for the skills ( sprint, the armour ignoring part of bull's strike etc. ). Not for the inherent effect.

Aug 11, 2006, 05:06 PM // 17:06	#11
Slainster Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Feb 2006	quite interesting actually, ive never really thought about the impact of strength unless im using skills directly related. is there a way to "prove" what strength is doing anyone?

Aug 11, 2006, 05:16 PM // 17:16	#12
This is Brad Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Aug 2006 Guild: Clan KGYU [KGYU] Profession: W/	Strength only triggers upon the use of attack skills. I will outline a simple test to show this. You will need Wild Blow and a Speed Boost. Set your Strength to be as high as possible. Go to the Isle of the Nameless, find the ranger NPC that just runs around (Master of Survival I believe). Press your speed boost and autoattack, you will autocritical because she is running from you. Record this number. This is your critical hit damage base. Now, Press your speed boost and use Wild Blow on her. You will notice that the amount of damage has increased, but this is still just a critical hit (just like the critical hit you get when a target runs from you). You can repeat this test with varying amounts of strength. Note: If you have 0 strength, the 2 numbers should be identical. The only explanation is that Strength only triggers off of attack skills and not off of innate autoattacking. Personally (for GvG primarily), I will only spec 9-10 into strength, and then use 10-11 in tactics and 14 weapon mastery.

Aug 11, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30	#14
Gafgarion Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brazil Guild: Scars Meadows [SMS] Profession: W/	This is Brad is right, the armor penetration provided by strenght is only applied to attack skills, not normal attacks. It even says so in the description (hover mouse over attribute). Even then, I think Strenght should be buffed to inflict AP on normal attacks. I mean, at 10 str you'd have 10% AP. On a 60 AL target that only accounts for 6 armor, which isn't really that much at all.

Aug 11, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05	#18
aB- Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jun 2005	The damage bonus from strength is negligible. The real reason people put points into strength is for the skills.

Aug 11, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26	#19
A Leprechaun Desert Nomad Join Date: Feb 2006 Profession: W/	wow thanks for all the replies! the general feeling im getting is strength is only good if your packing strength skills which is mainly in PvP am i right? ~A Leprechaun~